Nothing comes from nothing is a philosophical dictum first argued by Parmenides. Through mathematics and indirect observation of quantum fluctuations, scientists can now make the case that our universe did indeed come into existence out of what people call, “nothing.” Now most people’s problem with this astonishing discovery comes from the use of this word, “nothing.” henry higgins says: August 1, 2019 at 11:02 am. Logic, real logic, alone cannot tell us whether something can come from nothing or not, just like it couldn't tell us if the orbits of the planets are perfect spheres or if the sun orbits the earth. – Erin’s Conclusion. From the Philosophical definition, no, but "nothing" can't be shown to ever have existed, so it's a moot point. Can virtual particles come from nothing? The fact that we exist and are made of matter is indisputable; the question of why our Universe contains something (matter) instead of nothing … My father who is a mechanical engineer seems to think that something cannot come from nothing but I think that he is wrong because my father evidently never heard of virtual particles and quantum field theory. But the physicists argue that it follows naturally from science's two most powerful and successful theories: quantum mechanics and general relativity. The books goes through the big bang and many other cosmological aspects that will enrich your understanding of the known universe. It is the be all and end all of existence. Given the First Law of Thermodynamics: that you can't get something from nothing. where nothing can be added or subtracted from the 'specimen'. Therefore between all atoms are atoms, and between those atoms are atoms and this goes on infinitely. Well, that's not really accurate. The fact that there is a difference, proves that 'something' has to have come from 'something'. Nothing can come of nothing. In 1960 the Princeton physicist—and subsequent Nobel Prize winner—Eugene Wigner raised a fundamental question: Why did the natural world always—so far as we know—obey laws of mathematics? In English, this means that if there is nonexistence (nothing) between two atoms, then logically those two atoms must be touching, as there is nothing separating them. Can Something Come From Nothing? Special pleading at its best. So now we have established that something can come from nothing. Young Earth Creationists). James Clerk Maxwell (1831–1879) was a committed Christian who viewed his biblical faith as the basis for all the scientific work he did. I am sorry to say that the Eleatic School has the far more convincing argument in this context. If it were, it would cease to be nothing and become something. Read "Can Something Come From Nothing Critical Thinkings and other exceptional papers on every subject and topic college can throw at you. Ok, where did God come from? After all, they cannot be observed and some physicists claim they’re just useful computational tools, not actually existing. What about the “laws of physics”? Lawrence M. Krauss is a renowned cosmologist and professor of the School of Earth and Space Exploration at Arizona State University_._ He is the author of numerous articles and books, including the best-selling _The Physics of Star Trek_ and _A Universe from Nothing_ that includes an Afterword from atheist provocateur Richard Dawkins_._ Krauss is an outspoken atheist, evolutionist, and anti-Christian. It's virtual impossibly. What makes them laws? Something is something and nothing is nothing and to think otherwise is nonsense! I actually have a theory about this that, as far as I can tell, explains the actual creation of all existence from absolute ubiquitous nothingness. Can Something Come From Nothing? The conclusion is that if God needed a cause, then God is not God (and if God is not God, then of course there is no God). In conclusion, something could come from nothing but equally not become at all. This is particularly true when discussing the concept of nothing, and what ends up being caught is that because of the limitations of language, we always talk about things as though they are objects. The universe came from nothing. They couldn’t because all of space would be filled. 2. It can’t account for anything since anything is something and something does not appear spontaneously from nothing. When put in a modern context, like discussing the Big Bang and “Something coming from nothing,” YEC’s will have numerous issues trying to use this concept. Can something come from nothing? In the end, the curse that Zeno and Parmenides plagued us with remains: motion is impossible, because between any two points there are an infinite number of atoms (thank goodness for Limitations and Calculus). Or to put it more colloquially: in order to get from one point to another, first you must go halfway. 0. It is a theistic answer to the question of how the universe comes to exist. So now we have established that something can come from nothing. For example, if we were to put existence and nonexistence in complementary sets, linguistically we treat them as both existing. And if we can say that the universe can come from nothing, then we have solved one of the oldest philosophical problems there is. Depends on how you define "nothing". Otherwise its an endless conundrum of what came first, the chicken or the egg. Believe it or not there are some atheists who actually think nothing can do something. Clearly not everything touches everything else, so what is it that is between these atoms? He just always existed Ok, then the laws of physics could have always existed. Can Something Come from Nothing? Old King Lear has decided to retire and divide his kingdom among his three daughters. Pushkin October 19, 2002, 12:36pm #1. There simply never has been nothing. Besides, we never ever see something come out of nothing do we?” Do we? 2. The beauty of Tryon’s suggestion is that the properties of this vacuum state can be calculated, so the question of how “nothing” became … It’s a catch-22. God did design the material (and everything else) that makes up snowflakes and the process by which they form. The beginning and end links to the end and beginning. Now this is where things get more interesting. We can custom-write anything as well! Ask them where did the first matter come from? It is impossible to get from one point to another, because the distance can be infinitely divided in half, meaning any distance between two points is infinite. Dec 2, 2011 #21. Results are only viewable after voting. Like Reply Challenge. BUT I like to point out, IF nothing comes from nothing where did God get the material he needed to create things? No one has ever seen a law of physics. There is no "nothing" in space and never was. Then we could go back in time (because we’re super smart and can do that) and create the universe. It is a theistic answer to the question of how the universe comes to exist. The following is from the Preface to his book: In the interests of full disclosure right at the outset I must admit that I am not sympathetic to the conviction that creation requires a creator, which is at the basis of all the world’s religions. Can it? The Universe Created Itself. Something came from nothing due to god leads directly into the question Where did god come from. In order for there to be something between two atoms, something must exist. C) Therefore A1 and A2 are together and there is no B, therefore no N. Together with various other more technical properties, this led Tryon to suggest that the universe was created from nothing or, more precisely, what physicists call the vacuum state. Now at this point, if you are not mathematically minded or familiar with things like Limitations then you are right now rocking back and forth in your chair questioning existence (maybe I’m projecting my own experience after dealing with this). If 'something' can come from nothing, then you would have to accept the fact that there are actually 2 states of nothing, one that supports the creation of 'something' and another that doesn't. What if mankind developed for a million years and became so smart that we would essentially be Gods. The universe came from nothing. Atomists (like Democritus) believed that motion was possible. Otherwise its an endless conundrum of what came first, the chicken or the egg. It is quite possible that this statement is false, but it also can be true, and we are not able to … Managed by Chittam Technology Solutions, LLC. Many scientists assume that the universe came from nothing, which is an idea that can only be true in light of quantum theory. Anyway, recently i have started to believe in a creator again as i have found no other explanation for our existence? Yet no one but the most ardent fundamentalists would suggest that that each and every such object is lovingly and painstakingly and, most importantly, purposely created by a divine intelligence. It’s not an understatement to say that the discovery has changed the playing field of modern cosmology. However, most physicists disagree. … Q: “How can something come from nothing?” …Let’s see! Lyrics by Richard Rodgers.)). It is associated with ancient Greek cosmology, such as is presented not just in the works of Homer and Hesiod, but also in virtually every internal system: there is no break in-between a world that did not exist and one that did, since it could not be created ex nihilo in the first place. An idea can come from nothing. A vacuum is a balanced combination of matter and antimatter, or particles and antiparticles. Lear: "Nothing can come of nothing: speak again." That's something; that's not nothing." Nothing comes from nothing, Nothing ever could. Something can't come out of nothing. To speak of creation Ex Nihilo does not mean that we have a "change" in substance from nothing to something. When this question is asked it is usually in regard to the origin of our universe. The last issue that we must then discuss in regards to both YEC’s and Atheists/Agnostics (insert label here) is the issue of turning the Philosophical Nothing into Something. It can't account for anything since anything is something and something does not appear spontaneously from nothing. After all, they ask, “How can something come from nothing?” One such religious notion is the story of creation: once upon a time there was nothing, and then, miraculously, there was something. But is that the only possibility? In other words, the total amount of energy in the universe appears to be zero. Yes No Multiple votes are allowed. These guys have come up with the first rigorous proof that the Big Bang could indeed have occurred spontaneously because of quantum fluctuations. Only God can create something from Nothing in their minds. The foundational points we can establish thus far are the following: 1. Edited June 9, 2011 by disappointedyoungman Logic, real logic, alone cannot tell us whether something can come from nothing or not, just like it couldn't tell us if the orbits of the planets are perfect spheres or if the sun orbits the earth. We now have two competing schools of thought, those following the Eleatic School and those Atomists who don’t at all agree. The first version of this article, which I wrote all the way back in 1997, merely compiled a list of quotes from physicists affirming that something can indeed come from nothing through entirely natural processes, and that the entire universe might be one such thing. Creatio ex nihilo (Latin for "creation out of nothing") refers to the belief that matter is not eternal but had to be created by some divine creative act, frequently defined as God. I was an atheist for about two years and have read the God delusion and i used to be a Catholic. have gone so far to say that the cosmos—including us—“is nothing but mathematics.” ((Max Tegmark, “The Great Math Mystery,” NOVA.)) Evolutionists must believe in “miracles” and “magic.” An evolutionist like Krauss can’t explain how the world works except to descend into irrationality. Only God can create something from Nothing in their minds. I'm skipping some crucial steps here, but that is the gist of it. And if some things can appear out of nothing then why can't the universe or God for that matter had come from nothing? And to get from the halfway point to the destination you must go half way. But I have problems with several of the other posts on this opinion thread: 1. He needs energy to make his evolutionary machine work. ... Jun 08, 2015: A universe from nothing by: Anonymous When scientists say that the universe can simply come out of nothing without any divine intervention, they think of the universe in terms of its energy content only. The Atheist Experience #750, 2/26/2011. Can something come from nothing? The beauty of Tryon’s suggestion is that the properties of this vacuum state can be calculated, so the question of how “nothing” became “something” was opened up. Concluding this, you can rest assured that even if you accept a definition of nothing as being “the absence of everything,” there is still no reason that something cannot come from nothing, and so it is on the shoulders of the YEC to state that something cannot come from nothing. I hope you enjoyed the (very long) collaboration today. Another thing my father believes is that mathematics doesnt really exist in … P1) If A1 and A2 are separated by B then B = E (see above converse issue if false), P2) If B = E then B =/= N therefore B =/= NE, P3) If B =/= NE, and N = NE then N cannot be between A1 and A2, P4) Therefore between all A there must be E. In English, a similar issue to the problem of Bisection will occur, wherein between every atom is another atom, since all things that exist are made of atoms, and in order for atoms to be separated there must be something that exists which separates them (otherwise they couldn’t be separate). 0. Lyrics by Richard Rodgers.)) And ironically, the laws of physics actually have been proven to exist now, whereas no God ever has. Big Bang theory does not actually say that the universe came from nothing. I don’t know of a single “fundamentalist” who has ever claimed that God designs every snowflake. Another point that can be brought up is that if one wishes to state as fact that “Something cannot come from nothing,” they must actually prove this to be the case, the Burden of Proof lies on the one making the claim. BUT I like to point out, IF nothing comes from nothing where did God get the material he needed to create things? In fact, the word "nothing" can be broken apart to show that it means "no-thing." Virtual particles are often cited as evidence that things can come into existence from nothing, since they pop into existence out of the quantum vacuum. Consider this bit of irrationality: In fact, many laypeople as well as scientists revel in our ability to explain how snowflakes and rainbows can spontaneously appear, based on simple, elegant laws of physics. Democritus proposed that all things in the universe, all that exists, are made up of an indivisibly small particle which he called the Atom. Something came from nothing due to god leads directly into the question Where did god come from. ((Lawrence M. Krauss, A Universe from Nothing: Why There is Something Rather Than Nothing (New York: Free Press, 2012), xiii.)). Nothing is a human concept for even the "emptiness" of space we have found something. The issue as you can see is that, in the end, the concept of nothing seems to be self-defeating in these contexts. He must steal that energy from the theistic power plant that he ridicules, misrepresents, and claims it doesn’t exist. But the question came up: What is between these atoms? "Something cannot come from nothing" implies that we know what "nothing" is, but we apparently do not. If it were, it would cease to be nothing and become something. Second, they have to distinguish if they mean Scientific Nothing (which is still very much something, read Lawrence Krauss if you don’t believe me), or Philosophical Nothing (the absence of existence). “Nothing comes from Nothing”, this is a statement many Christians make to prove that God exists. Any answer that solves this problem for god can probably also just be used to explain the universe itself instead. How does a materialist like Krauss account for non-physical entities like mathematics and physics in a cosmos that seemingly came into existence out of nothing and continues to operate in terms of fixed and predictable laws? Very Probably: Five Rational Ways to Think about the Question of a God], it takes the existence of some kind of a god to make the mathematical underpinnings of the universe comprehensible. Here is the Kraussian “science” behind it all: “our universe arose from precisely nothing.” So for Krauss, “nothing” must be “a kind of ‘something’” because “[a]bsolute nothingness means no laws, no vacuums, no fields, no energy, no structures, no physical or mental entities of any kind—and no ‘symmetries.’ It has no properties or potentialities. The idea isn't a rule, but a description. Creation ex nihilo - without God (1997) (Updated 2011) Mark I. Vuletic . What does this mean? Well it is nothing at all, because everything that has existence is made of atoms, so the void is something non-existent. All you need is an ultra-high-intensity laser, a … Can Something Come From Nothing? It seems that religious people are trying to hijack a “reasoning” or “scientific” method of approaching the argument, and it just doesn’t work. And if you can’t create something, you can’t get anything. Lyrics by Richard Rodgers. It is another way of saying there are no laws and nothing upon which actions could even take place. So there you go, I saved the less mentally damaging for last. ((“Something Good” from The Sound of Music (1965). If virtual particles can come from nothing, does that mean that something can actually come from nothing? Report Post . Krauss has stated that “Science is only truly consistent with an atheistic worldview…” I’m sure Isaac Newton, Robert Boyle, Johannes Kepler, Joseph Lister, James Young Simpson, Samuel F.B. And if you wish to show that something may in fact come from this nothing, you can simply indicate that if there is nothing, then there is nothing to prevent something from coming into existence, and if you want to talk about the idea of nothing being nonsensical (even though it still is logically possible) you can simply turn to the ancient works of old, where they showed that proposing nothing within the scope of things which exist becomes entirely problematic, and then you can … Creatio ex nihilo (Latin for "creation out of nothing") refers to the belief that matter is not eternal but had to be created by some divine creative act, frequently defined as God. Am I being ignorant here or can something come from nothing? Snowflakes and rainbows don’t “spontaneously appear.” The material, conditions, and natural laws necessary for them to appear exist. This is the Reification fallacy, which I fell prey to while formulating my positions on this, in fact. “Something can’t come from nothing, so their must be a God” (cosmological, or First Cause, argument) is not only a non sequitur when defending ones religious claims, it is also not a very good argument on its own merit. Posted by: mjswift. The first issue that anyone could bring up in reply would be that, “No one said the Big Bang came from nothing,” and thus the issue of nothing would be entirely avoided to a degree (though the question of the first cause still exists). First, there is the issue that they must prove that something cannot come from nothing. Like a potter who needs his tools and clay, you can’t create something if there is nothing. One of the most fundamental questions of all time nicely dealt with by the guys on the Atheist Experience. Some evolutionists and non-religionists like physicist Max Tegmark ((Max Tegmark, Our Mathematical Universe: My Quest for the Ultimate Nature of Reality Paperback (New York: Vintage Books, 2015), 5.)) While the question seemed all-important and pertinent to the ancients, what we now know about the nature of the universe renders it obsolete. He has been described as the father of modern physics. Great Debates. For one thing, this discovery has produced remarkable new support for the idea that our universe arose from precisely nothing. The science is complicated, and so is the theory. "Nothing" is not a type alternate reality. 1. Can Something Come From Nothing? A vacuum might seem like empty space, but scientists have discovered a new way to seemingly get something from that nothingness, such as light. He goes on to claim that “every day beautiful and miraculous objects suddenly appear.” Krauss mentions “miracles,” and Richard Dawkins, who wrote the Afterword to Krauss’ book and heaps abundant praise upon it, describes evolution as “magic” in his own book The Magic of Reality: How We Know What’s Really True. [ ↩] ((Krauss, A Universe from Nothing, xiii.)). Thanks Here is this common misconception in a nutshell: “The universe couldn’t have possibly popped into existence out of nothing.” Quantum Physics is, in a way, the new kid on the block. While the question seemed all-important and pertinent to the ancients, what we now know about the nature of the universe renders it obsolete. When scientists say that the universe can simply come out of nothing without any divine intervention, they think of the universe in terms of its energy content only. The theistic argument simply put is that everything has to have a cause, (something can not come from nothing) so therefore the universe had to have a cause, and that cause is god. But if we graciously allow that something is nothing, in the same sort of way every child wins a trophy for participation, than we can say a universe can come from nothing. Believe it or not there are some atheists who actually think nothing can do something. These particles have tremendous density but we cannot observe them, for their observable characteristics cancel each other out. To most people, the claim that something cannot come from nothing is a truism. Have you ever heard the phrase, “Something cannot come from Nothing,” before? Something can’t come from nothing. Does this mean that love, compassion, morality, and a whole host of human emotions are nothing but mathematics? "In Stephen Hawking’s new book The Grand Design, he says that because of the law of gravity, the universe can and will create itself out of nothing. What is the void? 2. Man created the gods to ease their insecurity with their ignorance of that which they found significant in life. One cannot get a something from a nothing. "Nothing" is not a type alternate reality. In the end, this would further prove the views of Parmenides and Zeno, that movement is impossible, since if there is an infinite number of atoms between point 1 and 2, then you could never traverse them, because you could infinitely bisect the number of atoms that separate 1 from 2. As Wigner wrote, “the enormous usefulness of mathematics in the natural sciences is something bordering on the mysterious and there is no rational explanation for it.”, In other words, as I argue in my book [God? … It explains that we can almost always get something from nothing, even if the religious community claim only a deity can make something from nothing they cannot or will be unwilling to define what nothing is. ((Krauss, A Universe from Nothing, xiii.)). Nothing comes from nothing,Nothing ever could. But Carrier replied to my point with this statement: Oh yes, "out of nothing, nothing comes" is another one. Eric from Mesa Arizona calls in to challenge Matt to a debate. You want to let go of your past and start on a new journey, but there is nothing for you to start off with. I stand on the shoulders of Maxwell.’”, Maxwell’s work in the field of mathematical physics led to the invention of television, mobile phones, microwaves, and nuclear energy. Why couldn’t there always have been something? And this problem goes on infinitely. … Despite the many other enormous advances of modern physics, little has changed in this regard. Any answer that solves this problem for god can probably also just … There are numerous issues that one would then encounter, because there is no logical reason why something cannot come from nothing (the absence of existence). But if all space in the universe was filled with matter and substance, where could these other atoms (like people) move into? What is there to stop something from popping into existence? Plants grew, adapted, and expanded just like humans do on earth. And to go from that next halfway point to the destination you must again go half way. It feels about time that age-old question “why is there something rather than nothing?” should notice it’s old age and finally die off. You want to see a scientist, who doesn't believe in the existence of God, unravel and come unglued in front of your eyes??? A vacuum might seem like empty space, but scientists have discovered a new way to seemingly get something from that nothingness, such as light. There are two ways in which one can go about dismissing the idea of “nothing” in regards to Democritus’ theory. Where did that first cell come from? A clue to the answer is in the Bible for those that look for it! These great minds gave us the following issues that were in direct conflict with each other and will eternally mess with the minds of undergraduate philosophy students: the Paradox of Bisection (Zeno and Parmenides), and Atomism (Democritus). Imagination allows that to be possible. The foundational points we can establish thus far are the following: 1. 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